A Question To Consider:
Do we have free will? What does free will mean?
Cultural Analysis:
1. What does our culture believe concerning free will? What do modern people believe about free will?
2. How does modern science deal with the questions of free will?
For example, think of the science of genetics or brain research.
3. According to modern science, what causes alcoholism? What causes homosexuality? What does this say about free will?
Notice: To all those who answer, answer honestly. Also, when giving a rebuttal to another's answer, please remember to be respectful. As I have been told a thousand times, I will tell you: We do not treat people the way they deserve to be treated. We treat them the way Jesus would treat us. If you cannot comply with these rules please do not comment. If you do comment and have not followed these regulations then you will be band from the blog forever. This does not mean however that you cannot question. Questioning is always encouraged. Thank you!
I typed "free will" into the Google search bar and these are the pictures that came up:
Let me know what you think about the pictures. Which one depicts you belief the best? Do any of them at all? Before you answer these questions you must first answer the cultural analysis first.
I can't wait to hear you responses!!
33 comments:
I believe that humans have freewill. Freewill is the ability to make choices and decisions that that affect and determine our future.
Modern-day culture believes a mixture of free-will. In other words, people do and don't have freewill. They believe that sometimes we have freewill and sometimes we don't.
I think that we do have freewill...in a way. God has pre-ordained everything that we do, whether we except Him or not(aka go to heaven or hell), so that technically we have no freewill. BUT, at the same time we still make everyday choices. We have the choice to pick up that bottle of water or to lie about that cookie we just stole off the counter. It's all very confusing...but at the same time it makes sense. LOL.
I disagree. We, humans, have freewill and can determine which way we can go in our life, what we do, or what we think. God already knows which choice we will take. How? Simple. He's God and that's all there is to it. God has pre-ordained everything, yes, because he already knows which way we will go.
Jonathan: I think that you are making it sound a little like God has to wait to make a plan for us until after we make a decision. It kind of sounds like God does not have any power but that He really just plays off of our decisions and has no pre-ordained plan. Is this what you are saying?
I have the same questions Sarah does. Because if we are able to completely control our actions and decisions, God is playing catchup. He really has no control over His creation - we are in control.
God decides who is going to heaven...
"For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate.... Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified." -- Romans 8:29-30
...and who is going to hell.
"God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned." -- 2 Thessalonians 2:11-12
It is quite evident in the Bible that predestination is true. Looking at the five points of Calvinism...
Total Depravity - we are all fallen and sinful by nature
Unconditional Election - it is of nothing on our own part that we are saved, it is by God alone. Nothing we can do can save us.
Limited Atonement - some are chosen, and some aren't. Christ died only to save the elected.
Irresistible Grace - We can not turn away from God when grace is offered to us.
Perseverance of the Saints - once a follower, always a follower. You can not fall away from grace. God is sovereign and His will cannot be changed by humans or anything else, those whom God has called into communion with himself will continue in faith until the end.
With Biblical backing, it is proven true. God even says in Malachi that before they were even born and had committed sin, God hated Esau yet loved Jacob. He predestined whom He would love and call to Him.
I also find it a bit presumptions to pronounce that one has anything to do with their own salvation. No offense or anything, but when you say you've "chosen" to follow God and believe in Christ, you are asserting that you have a part in your salvation, which is definitely not true.
As our pastor(Sarah H's father) once said(or something like it), "It is by nature that we are sinful, and we should be exceedingly thankful that God intervened and chose some of us to call to Himself. Because if we were left alone to choose Christ, we would all go to hell, because in sin, we could never, ever make the choice ourself."
So...those are my thoughts. What are yours?
No. God does have a pre-ordained plan and he does have the power to make us do what he wants us to. There is no question as to if God can do whatever he wants.
What I'm saying is, even though God could make us do what he wants us to do, he gave us, humans, freewill. He gave us the choice of whether to accept him and spend eternity with him in heaven or reject him and spend eternity in hell.
No one is saved before they're born or guaranteed that they will be saved afterward. God could easily make us all to accept salvation him, but he still gives us a choice.
You can't lose their salvation once you are saved. Once you're saved, you're always saved.
God knows everything we do, have done, and ever will do. He has a pre-ordained plan and nothing will change that plan. Why? Because his everything in his plan will happen exactly as he wants it to. He gives us freewill, already knowing which way we will go. How? Because he's God.
Also, I didn't say we are able to completely control our actions and decisions. Only God can control something like that.
For instance, I am a Christian. I was saved,I was 6 years old, when I asked Jesus to come into my heart and save me. I decided whether or not to accept him. God knew what I was going to do. He had, and still has, a plan for my life and nothing could change it. But He still gave me a choice of whether or not to accept him.
If we were left alone to choose Christ, we would all go to hell because in sin we could never ever make the choice ourself?
What of the people who are in sin today who get saved? I know several people who, before they were saved, were in sin.
Why did they choose to get saved? Because they realized, more like God showed them, that without him they were miserable, their life had no purpose, and they were doomed to spend eternity in the lake of fire; separated from God forever.
One question - how does Romans 9 concur with your beliefs?
I think what is not being understood here, Jonathan, is why you think free will has anything to do with your will. So...Why do you think free will has anything to do with your will? Because what I'm getting is that free will is really the ability to follow Gods will and a captive will is a will under the control of a sinful you (you being a general, mankind noun). Do you not believe this?
Also, I believe that God makes the choice as to who He is and isn't going to reveal Himself to. So no, He doesn't leave it up to you to choose Him or not. Maybe that is where the confusion is. Do you believe that you have the ability to choose Jesus as your Saviour? Because if you look at John 15:16 in any version it clearly says you do not. Also take a look at Romans 8:29, you can see that (in any version you choose) God is saying that He choose you to follow His son. Does that make sense?
Hold on. Lets start over. Do you believe in Limited Atonement? Yes or no?
Well, I did ask you a question. I kinda wish you would answer them before asking me another question so that we don't get too mixed up. But for the sake of peacemaking I'll answer your question first.
Yes I do. It's sort of what I've been saying this whole time. Why do you ask?
Ok. I'll answer all your questions, just one at a time.
First, in saying you believe in Limited Atonement, you are saying you believe that there are some people are chosen, and some aren't. That Christ died only to save the elected, right? Do you think that this is true?
Yes Jonny, that's what she means. Its part of Reformed Theology - our beliefs.
:] You guys are funny.
Yes Jonathan, that is what I believe. Unless you meant something else when you said limited atonement...I don't think you can mean something else actually.
Ok, just checking. Now do you believe in telling people about Jesus and sharing your faith with them?
Yes we do. Christ does call us to. I think I see where you are going with this. Next I expect you to say something along the lines of "why preach the Gospel when God chooses whom He chooses?"
Yes...we preach and spread the Gospel. Christ calls us to - demands it. In Matthew he says to "disciple all nations". We can see even Paul fulfills this, though He too believed in what today is called Reformed Theology. Our job is to plant seeds. Its up to the Holy Spirit to nurture the seeds and make them grow.
Make sense?
Ok then. Why bother? If God already chooses who will be saved and who will not be saved, nothing we do can change that. Either they're going to heaven or not, so why even try? Just leave them alone, and if God chooses to save them then he will save them.
Also, if what you say is true, then who is chosen and who is not? What if we want to get saved, but God hasn't chosen us to be saved? So even though we want to trust him and accept him as Lord, we can't because we weren't chosen? Are there certain people who will never be saved, no matter if they want to or not?
That's where the whole "Irresistible Grace" comes into play. If God calls, we can not turn Him away.
So why bother trying to get saved? God will choose who will be saved, and nothing we do can change it.
Because we are chosen by God to be saved - if we want to be saved we are one of the predestined elect.
Jonathan I do not think you can choose or reject God. If we are all sinners and our hearts desire what is wrong what in us makes us want to choose God all on our own? And if God has chosen you as His elect we do not have the power in us to resist or reject Him. I also believe that God chose whom He would save before the foundation of the world and called them to be His elect. But that is what I believe :) Also Jonathan would you mind pointing out in the Bible where you found that it says that we get to choose or reject God? Thanks!
Lets see...I dont have a whole lot to say here cause i actually dont know much about calvanists...i was raised in a baptist church. if im not mistaken the god of the christian bible wants every person to be in heaven with him...does he not? and if man had no free will, adam and eve couldnt have eaten from the tree in the garden of eden...but i really have no religious preferences at the moment. i will however make the statement that if the bible is the truth and the word of god, then Jonathan in my opinion would have best interpreted its message, out of the people that commented here...but what can i say...as i said i have no religious preference. but again. i have read the bible, and IF it is true, i think Jonathan would be correct.
Well here's a question, where did sin come from?? If God makes everything...didn't He also make sin??? Just a thought to consider.
No, actually. That is not true, Anon. The Bible clearly states in multiple places that God is just and chooses whom He chooses. It is just a prettier picture to think that man can choose his destiny. But it's a misconception. If God wanted every man in His kingdom, wouldn't it be undermining His power to suggest that He can't get everyone there; that their choice is more powerful than His?
And yeah. I agree with what Kait said. If you in fact believe in the bible, then you believe in the scripture verses we have referenced saying that God has chooses some people to go to heaven and others to go to hell.
thats actually very interesting...so if youre chosen by god to go to hell, then theres no benefit from acknowledging his existence is there? also if god truely chooses some people to burn in hell i do hope im one of them so that i dont have to look at the face of a being that would create something merely to see it burn in agonizing pain...that sounds much more like something that would be called satan.
also the people chosen for hell might as well go drink and **** all they want to as well, cause they wont benefit from doing whats right...right?
The bible says this:
Romans 1:18 -19
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. For what can be known about God is plain to them because God has shown it to them.
Basically: It is not that truth is sought and cannot be found, those who are chosen are revealed the truth of God through God. So if you weren't meant to believe you wouldn't know it. So those who aren't chosen, don't know they aren't chosen. No one knows who is or isn't chosen by God. And No one can do anything to make God chose him. God chooses whom He pleases, because it pleases Him. Not the other way around.
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